An Interview With Reverend Nancy Vogele, College Chaplain

On May 4, 2023, Editor-in-Chief of The Dartmouth Review Matthew O. Skrod (TDR) interviewed the Reverend Dr. Nancy A.G. Vogele ’85 (NV), the College Chaplain and Director of the Tucker Center for Spiritual and Ethical Living. Rev. Vogele discussed her life and work at Dartmouth. 

TDR: Reverend Vogele, thank you for taking the time to talk with us. You’re a Dartmouth ’85 and have been in the region more or less since your graduation. Could you talk about your background at Dartmouth and in the ministry and about what has drawn you back to the College and its environs several times now throughout your life?

NV: Shortly after I graduated from Dartmouth, a new position at the Tucker Foundation was created: the volunteer coordinator. This was back when the Tucker Foundation had very robust community-service options. The Foundation was looking for someone to provide a peer-relationship model and to help convey the understanding that being involved in the Foundation was a part of a bigger movement of community service. It was a great job, and I did it for 18 months.

I then went way, way far away as a missionary to what was then Zaire and is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo. I was a Volunteer for Mission there for two years with the Anglican Church. At Dartmouth, I had been a double major in Government, focusing on international relations, and French, so I had thought I was going to go into the foreign service. But when I was overseas, I saw the divide between what I would be doing either working at the consulate or, alternatively, serving in churches that were poorer than poor. That church service had an aliveness that appealed to me, and I decided I wanted to pursue that. 

I knew I wanted the church setting, so I tried to discern if my calling was to do, for instance, international-aid work through the church or what else it was. So, I ended up going to Yale Divinity School because I realized I could take a course anywhere in the university. It was while I was at Yale, reading books like Christianity Rediscovered or Translating the Message, things like that, that I started sensing I might want to be a priest. So, I explored that with my bishop, did some more training, and then I was on the ordination track. 

St. Thomas [in Hanover] had sponsored me to go to Africa, and St. Thomas sponsored me through the ordination process. I always kept that New Hampshire connection. I was ordained a deacon at St. Thomas. You feel essentially an obligation to your diocese that has supported you, and, if there are positions, you should apply for them. There was a position in Concord at St. Paul’s Church, so I applied and was there. Then, after four years, I went to Episcopal Divinity School to get a doctorate. I wanted to explore the idea that, in the Episcopal Church, in the catechism, anytime there is reconciliation—to each other and God in Christ—that is participation in God’s mission. 

I was briefly at St. Matthew’s in Goffstown, and then I was called to St. Paul’s in White River Junction, where I stayed for 12 years. Then I assumed a position at Dartmouth, through what was then the Tucker Foundation, as Director of Religious Life.     

I ultimately left to be the transition pastor for the Lutherans at Our Savior Lutheran Church. It was actually hysterical because I, an Episcopalian, helped them celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation! But it was really fun, and I learned so much. We ended up bottling our own beer, so the Lutherans are cool. 

However, I just didn’t feel I was the one called at the Lutheran Church. I mean, I go there now, but I just didn’t feel like I was the one for them. So, I started looking, and, at my prior Goffstown parish, the priest of 31 years retired. I loved that church, and I became rector. But I resigned after four years in order to care for my mom, who was moving out here. 

During that time, Dartmouth was interviewing for this position, and I was in conversation with folks at the College to ask if I offered what they were looking for, because I am not the typical professional in higher education. But in the midst of COVID, in the midst of student deaths, came the realization that they really needed and wanted someone with pastoral-care experience. They realized how important that was along with really overseeing and managing the groups in the United Campus Ministry. To me, this showed that the College really wanted to figure out, in all ways possible, how to help students through this incredible pandemic crisis and then the mental-health crisis. 

TDR: There are several threads here, and we’ll go at them one at a time! A short question first: When the Tucker Foundation was split into the Tucker Center and what was to become the DCSI (Dartmouth Center for Social Impact), the charity work which had long been a central part of the Tucker Foundation was, in a sense, secularized. How would you assess that development?

NV: I guess I would say that it was really already secularized prior to the split. Many students on campus thought they had to be religious to be involved at the Tucker Foundation, which was not so. And this was hampering the service part of our mission. What were we to do about that? Religious students were always going to volunteer, right? Did we want to have an organization where we were always explaining that students didn’t need to be religious to volunteer? Or did we want to explore what it would look like to have two separate entities?

TDR: You lead the United Campus Ministry, in which capacity you preside over meetings of all campus ministers and advisors to student religious groups. Could you describe what happens at these meetings and what you discuss?

NV: It depends on the meeting. We always start with a member giving an opening reflection from within his or her tradition. Given this time of year, much of the current discussion has dealt with year-end matters… Baccalaureate is coming up. Regalia—shall we order student-graduation stoles? We want to do an end-of-year dinner, because we haven’t been able to do that since 2019 due to COVID.

Annual reports need to be made, as I can’t tell our collective story if people don’t tell me their individual stories. And then, unless we have other pressing things, I always try to invite someone from the College to talk about something, in order to help the campus ministers and advisors understand the procedures of the College and other resources.

For instance, almost every year I’ve brought in the Title IX folks, because students will share with their campus minister. And so it’s really important for ministers and advisors to understand reporting procedures, confidential versus private resources, et cetera. It’s also important for them to know that there are other resources which they can reach out to and to whom they can refer students.

I’ve also had folks from counseling come and talk, largely along the same lines. A student might feel more comfortable coming to a minister first, so it’s important to know how to assess whether it might be helpful to refer them to counseling. I personally say when I’m meeting with students—because sometimes students just need to talk about something they’re struggling with—if I sense that they would benefit from counseling, “You really deserve someone specifically trained. And I’m happy to help widen your circle of support.” I can listen, but, again, there are people who are really trained, and I try to put it that way. 

I also try to normalize being in therapy, because I think there’s still a stigma and I don’t want them to feel that. In December, I recall that we had the folks heading up the JED campus program on mental health come and talk to the United Campus Ministers and Advisors about how we might be a resource for them and vice versa.

So, there’s always internal stuff to talk about, but I always try to bring in someone else. I want ministers and advisors to know what’s going on at the College and what resources it has to offer. At the same time, I want the people responsible for these resources to know that there are some amazing people in the campus ministry who can play an important role. So, it’s mutually beneficial.

TDR: On the subject of mental health and student wellbeing, how would you relate, or assess the relationship of, the Tucker Center to the Student Wellness Center? Are they complementary? Would it be fair to suggest that, in some capacity, they exist more or less on the same plane?

NV: Well, I think we’re great collaborators. At Tucker, we very much care about the wellbeing of our students. A wonderful quote by William Jewett Tucker is: “Do not expect that you will make any lasting or very strong impression on the world through intellectual power without the use of an equal amount of conscience and heart.”

As our multi-faith advisor, Ellie Anders Thompson, gets to know the campus and develop relationships, she is reaching out to other centers and departments and is specifically exploring doing a training with the Student Wellness Center on interfaith engagement. She’s got a decade of incredible experience in interfaith work and understands that pluralism does not mean everybody’s always on the same page, but that people have differing worldviews and we need to respect and engage across those worldviews. But I would say that, while we are also attentive to student wellness, we’re definitely grounding our efforts much more fully in realizing meaning and purpose. So, it’s not an equivalency. We’re both fruit, but one’s an apple and one’s an orange. 

Their mission is specifically to address mental health and wellbeing and to do so head-on. For us, we see that, like Dr. Mark Reed told us in December, “to be connected is to be protected.” Whereas our purpose is not intrinsically mental health, religious groups give our students purpose, which is protective, and which translates to mental health.

TDR: Can your objectives as Director be broadly assimilated to the mission of the Tucker Center? And how would you describe this mission? Is it necessarily to promote religiosity—that is, are you seeking to make students on campus more religious? Is it to ensure the provision of a welcoming space for religious life at the College?

NV: Our vision is multi-pronged. First, we want to affirm and support religious and spiritual identity and development. Nowhere else on campus is that being done. So, for students who want to explore faith or religious observance, we make sure that’s possible, whether through our United Campus ministers or through our multi-faith initiatives. 

But we also realize that if Dartmouth is to graduate leaders who are going to be able to take on the world’s deepest causes, they must be religiously literate. So, we seek to promote religious understanding and mutual respect, whether or not people are religious. And then we want to encourage each Dartmouth student to develop conscience and heart, which is based on the Tucker quote I gave. We also want to be a very vital partner. And then we’re here for individuals and the community in times of celebration, like baccalaureate, and need, like after a death. 

We also act as a consultant at times for the College. For instance, in the late fall the Provost reached out to me about difficulties staff and faculty were having when departments or organizations planned meetings or big events for days of religious observance. So, the Tucker Center worked to make a much more robust religious-holidays calendar for the Provost. After receiving it, he asked if we could create a shorter version as well for major religious holidays to be especially mindful of. 

The University of Vermont Medical School’s religious-holidays calendar had in red any work restrictions or anything like that. So, we did that on the big calendar, but then we took those 20 some-odd work-restrictive observances, put them in a separate calendar, and said to please be particularly sensitive around those. For some people who are observing a given holiday, they’re not actually allowed to work, or, even if their religion doesn’t talk about that, they would take the day off by tradition. We wanted to be sensitive to that. 

I see our efforts as a way of advocating the rights of religious practice. No one is against that, but we had the expertise. We provided that lens. We play the same role in the granting of religious accommodations in housing or dining.

TDR: You are both College Chaplain and Director of the Tucker Center. In practice, are these abundantly different roles, and do you conceive of your work in each capacity in a different way?

NV: Very much, yes. As Chaplain, of course, I deliver the invocation at Commencement and oversee the baccalaureate service.

I feel like they take two very different skill sets, and yet it’s one position. Back in the day, there was a dean, like a director, and then there was also a chaplain. That was 25 years ago.

So, sometimes it requires very different skill sets. After a student’s death, it’s a very pastoral skillset. Raising money and training staff requires a very different set of skills. Both are important, but one’s more pastoral and the other is more administrative.

So, I wear two hats. In fact, sometimes I say, “I have my pastoral hat on, please don’t make me put on the administrative hat,” at which people laugh. But they really know what I mean. 

TDR: In terms of the way the Tucker Center operates, it funds its constituent groups. It functions, then, like an umbrella for religious groups on campus, and, as able, it provides money to them. Of course, groups like Hillel and AQ have independent sources of funding, which are nothing short of voluminous. Would you be able to discuss the Tucker Center’s funding processes?

NV: Groups like Hillel and AQ don’t ask for money because they don’t need it. But there are student groups that are completely local, so they have no access to other funds, as with Morning Glory Christian Fellowship, Shanti, or Al-Nur. Other groups might have some access, but less, such as Cru, Agape, or Orthodox Christian Fellowship. 

We try to advocate more funding for these student groups. Let’s say one group has a little bit of funding from its organization, but it’s not enough. What I try to do is make it so it’s all equitable. 

Take a group that has no outside sources. Picking an arbitrary number, let’s say groups need $2,000, right? I’d give that unfunded group $2,000. If a different group can get $1,000 a year from its organization, I’d make sure it gets another thousand. 

Instead of just giving carte blanche, we’ve been operating a bit like COSO, but in not as formalized a way. If a group wants funds, it applies, fills out a form saying how the event is in line with its own mission and with Tucker’s mission, and then explains what it hopes to get out of the event. 

What does the group want attendees to be thinking, feeling, and doing as a result of coming to its event? On our end, there’s a rubric to follow just so that we’re not playing favorites inadvertently. After an event, a group fills out a reflection as to what has been learned, what some takeaways were, and how goals have been met.

TDR: Thank you very much, Reverend Vogele, for your time.

NV: Thank you.                 

 This interview has been edited for length and clarity.