Newlove Interview: Part 2

Editor’s Note: David Newlove is the Associate Vice President of Business and Hospitality for the college. He is currently on his second stint at the college. Our former Editor-in-Chief, Devon Kurtz, and Dartmouth Review contributor, Scotch Cara, sat down with David to have a conversation about Dartmouth operations, the gentrification of Novack, and his career path with the college.

I am David Newlove, and I am the Associate Vice President of Business and Hospitality for the College. 

TDR: What was your early education career like? Have you always lived in Upper Valley? Why did you come to Dartmouth?

I grew up in Southern California, lived in Santa Monica, California, earlier, went to Penn State University, graduated with a bachelor science degree in hotel management, worked for Marriott Corporation. That’s where I met my wife. We have two kids, been married thirty years this November. I worked for Marriott for a few years. My wife worked longer. Then I worked for UCLA. When we had two kids—both were in daycare—we took a hard look at the fact that all of my wife’s salary was going to daycare, and we lived in Santa Monica, we owned a home. We had a home with some apartments at the back to help pay for the house. We have family close by (Dartmouth), so we traveled there. I applied to Dartmouth. I forgot about it. It took six months for them to get back to me. I came out and started as the Associate Director for Dining. 

TDR: What year? 

2001. And then I became the Director of Dining. We had a Director of Dining who was ill. There was a transition. He had severe diabetes and heart issues, and he couldn’t come to work too much. He, unfortunately, he passed away two years ago. I did the catering, the Associate Director, and eventually, I was the Director of Dining. When I first started here, the Dining Program didn’t report to the Dean of the College—I guess it would be Student Affairs now. It reported to the business part of the College. It went to the Dean of the College, and then, four, five years ago, maybe it’s longer than that, Dining left the Dean of the College division, Housing left the Dean of the College portion, and so did Safety and Security. We work for campus services. 

TDR: What is your current role in the college? What does your day-to-day job look like? 

I oversee most of the auxiliaries for the College—Skiway, Hinman mail, which is also delivery around campus, and Dartmouth printing mail services. I work with a woman named Claire. We oversee the contract for Hanover Inn. Hanover Inn is outsourced to a company called Pyramid. We oversee that contract. Transportation and parking. It’s not just parking. Patrick, who is the Director of Parking, is on the Advance Transit Board, so we are the liaison for Advance Transit. When we needed a shuttle service to coordinate west-end construction, we worked with North Country Shuttle. We are the liaison for Zipcar. There are two other public transportations in the Upper Valley. There’s Stagecoach and there is the Current. We work with Enterprise, a rental car service. It’s not just a rental car. We stopped the day-to-day management of the Vanpool. Enterprise is better equipped to do that. They manage that part. We do work closely with Advance Transit, because the College, the town, major businesses like DHMC, pay for portions of Advance Transit that aren’t considered necessarily public transportation. For example, the Town and the College share the cost of the downtown shuttle that goes to Dewey, to Thompson. That’s not necessarily a public transportation need, even though the public can use it. Advance Transit gets a lot of its funding from the state of Vermont. New Hampshire does not have the greatest funding. Advance Transit really has to be careful about differentiating what is true public transportation for citizens and what’s private. There’s also transportation from the College to DHMC, which is partially subsidized through the medical school or DHMC. We’re looking at expanding some shuttle services. We’ve talked to the town about spitting that cost. As parking becomes tighter, it’s forcing people to park outside, so they’ve got to be able to get back in, so having an extra 15-minute shuttle would be helpful. 

TDR: Why are there spots for the Town reserved in Thompson? 

That’s a good question. When I first got here, I was like, why do we have this? It ends up that there was a swap. When you look at Webster Avenue, all of those spots are Green-permit spots. Before I came, there was a desire for the Town to have enclosed parking for employees. There was a swap that took place. 40 spots on Webster Avenue for 50 spots in Thompson. It is very interesting. We enforce Thompson. If somebody parks in the Town’s spots, we enforce it, but if somebody parks on Webster Avenue—let’s say they don’t have a Green permit or they have the wrong permit, the Town enforces it, because it is Town property. We plow Thompson, but the Town plows Webster Avenue. It’s interesting how that works. 

TDR: Have you considered renegotiating this? 

We have talked to the town [of Hanover] recently, actually, within a month or so ago. They’ve talked about taking Webster back, and Thompson should just be all of ours. I think there’s a certain convenience for their employees. Everybody who parks in Webster is a college employee. At least give them fifty spots that are close to the High school, or to the business. It makes no difference to me, where it is. Let’s say they take away Webster Avenue, and we get Thompson back. Those employers who have those Green permits will probably just park on campus anyway. It’s not that big of a deal, as long as we don’t end up with a net loss.

TDR: When you acquired the Skiway, did any policies change? Did anything about the overall structure or the way it’s run change?

I come from a business background. The Skiway was overseen by Outdoors Programs prior to me. Before that, they might have reported to the Business Office at some point. When I came in, it’s about strategy for how we service the customer. We did business analysis on whether the Skiway should just be open for athletics and PE, or if it should be open to the public, just to see where the funds come in because we have to pay for what we do. The analysis was really both; we can’t do one without the other. One of our limiting factors was water. We have a 5.5-million-gallon pond for snowmaking. We can make snow that only covers 40% of what’s skiable. This winter is pretty dry, except for today. We would draw that pond down to make snow. Sometimes it would be a week before we could fill up and make more snow. The number of skiable days is going down, so we have to make snow. So last year we were really blessed, right? We had a super-duper wet fall. We also had snow. We were able to blow snow, and then the pond would refill really quickly, so we could blow more snow. So, what it really is about is strategizing about where we make snow first. We work with athletics. You’ve got Holts which is across the road on the Skiway, which is extremely steep, and that’s where the ski team wants to ski, but most recreational skiers can’t ski there. Last year, because we had water, we were able to open up the intermediate areas, and we were able to open up Holts. But in years past, we had to decide what we were going to do. It’s really about strategizing with the Skiway managers. It’s a pretty small group, but it’s that balance between athletics, PE, and the local community, and what we open first, working with our limited resource, which is unfortunately water. 

TDR: Does the athletic department help subsidize the Skiway? 

Yeah, they do, because PE is a huge user of the Skiway, and ski team uses it too. When you help pay for it, local people use it too, so it’s just that balance and being able to make a business decision about what that right balance is. It really changes from year to year. Last year we were able to please everybody. This year, I don’t know. It’s the only business that you’re totally dependent upon God if you’re going to make it or not. Do you have cold weather? If it’s too cold, people will not come out. If you don’t have enough water, you can’t make snow. Man-made snow is better than natural snow. It holds up better. There are so many things you’re fighting against. It’s tough. It’s a tough business. I would never recommend anybody to get into the ski business. There’s a lot of consolidation happening right now. Our Director is retiring. We just started the process of hiring. I don’t know if you know what’s happening in the ski industry, but it’s consolidating. You have a lot of big buying of Skiways all over the country. We are pretty lucky that we have a very good pool of candidates for the ski director position. One of our challenges also is labor. I will tell you that we are one of the only ski areas, at least on the east coast where our lift operators are unionized. We use union folks five months in a year, and then for the rest of the year, they work at the golf course. I do not oversee the golf course. Golf is… you know… The problem with the golf courses is they are weather dependent. But the issue with that is you can only get 4 people every like 15 minutes, which I think is a turn. And when you really look at it, you are limited to the number of people that play golf a day. That’s another… I will never run a golf course here.

TDR: Why is the Hanover Inn required to cater things to the top of the Hop? We understand that certain things receive waivers, but that’s something that has never been made clear to the students that have to get those waivers. Can you explain that? How do you think the college benefits from its relationship with the Hanover Inn?

Let’s talk about the top of the Hop. The top of the Hop really has to do with the liquor license. The state of New Hampshire is a very interesting state. I can ride a motorcycle without a helmet, I don’t have to wear a seatbelt, I can buy the cheapest liquor in the country, I can go buy a handgun, I can go buy an assault rifle. I can go into a store, buy an assault rifle, and be out within a half-hour. But I will tell you, the state of New Hampshire, they are so strict in the adherence of liquor law. So, the Hanover Inn has a liquor license, and its liquor license covers the top of the Hop. So, if any liquor is served at the top of the Hop, and I mean beer and wine, it must be of the Hanover Inn, because it is their liquor license. Because if you make a mistake with your liquor license, it isn’t like they just take away the liquor license from the top of the Hop. You will lose the whole liquor license. Which means Pine, means catering, and everything. Now waivers you’re probably talking about if it’s just a food event at the top of the Hop, that’s probably when you can get the waiver. But once you include any beer and wine, it has to be Hanover Inn. Because of the liquor license. And so, we work closely with the Hop consent, I was amongst the chamber of commerce, we had a chamber of commerce event last week. And they had wine and beer in one of the galleries down below, and they were able to serve it themselves. And that is fine, they were given it away. But they couldn’t even do that at the top of the Hop, because of the fact you can’t, the liquor license precludes you from doing that. It would take the Inn who would have to give it away.

When they show up. So, we get audited, right? Dartmouth college has a liquor license too. We have a catering license for dinning. And so, they show up, they are an officer of the Law, they have the gun they have the badge. They come in, they want to see all your receipts. They want to see your inventory. You have to account for every ounce of liquor, and that’s beer wine and liquor that you have. It has to be locked, and if you are off, you are in big trouble. Because they will fine you, it’s very interesting it’s odd for New Hampshire, right? They’re very strict, it’s about income, right? And even …it’s just difficult, and how does that relationship work?

TDR: A lot of student organizations, have a really difficult time getting that waiver even when they’re just serving food. So why do you think that is?

I don’t know the process if it’s just for food. I think you would go to conferences and special events.

I think what happens is the Hanover Inn is the first right of use. And so… I think if it’s planned ahead of time, do you know like a month or so. But you would really have to ask someone from the conference and special events that process. I guess I really don’t know for sure. I just know that if it’s something short-term, the Hanover Inn is a private business, and they’re trying to make money. So there’s a process that they have through conference and events

TDR: Do you think it’s within your purview to look into that and see if the waiver could be more easily accessible just for food-only events?

I don’t know. I know that I’m looking into it for, are there options? We are trying to clarify it with the state. Pyramids liquor, they are looking into what are the requirements at the top of the Hop. Can, say the Hopkins center, do an event with liquor and wine and beer, give it away, is that even legal in a licensed place? There’ some clarification for that. The waiver thing, that’s really a question for conferences and events. I know for us, like in Paganucci and dining, I mean we are quick. Because they come right directly to us. They will give waivers within a day. I don’t know what the bureaucracy is for that so, I understand that can be a challenge. But I know the liquor license is a big part of this.

TDR: How do you think the college benefits with its relationship with the Hanover inn?

The college still owns the Inn, the building structure. All of the employees are Pyramid employees. Now they are unionized because when the Hanover Inn was self-operated, that was one of the stipulations that they will remain unionized. And so, What the college gets is, they no longer have to deal or manage with the day to day employee issues. That’s handled by Pyramid. Pyramid, you should look them up, overseas a lot of hotels. So, they have such expertise in the hotel industry that if a general manager leaves, they can bring another general manager. If the controllers, they can bring somebody in. When the college was running it, they would have to do a search, they would have to do that internal hiring then. So, you have this separate pool.

They run a regular business. They get fees, they get incentives. Incentives are made of how much money they are able to produce, their guest satisfaction. But we also require that in the budget they’re putting money away towards building placement and O&M. Because what happened when the college ran it, years ago, when the Hanover was getting old and worn down, there was no money to replace it. We’re building a fund so that when a ballroom needs to be replaced, or we need new furniture, we can do that. Recently we replaced all the mattresses, or we do the flooring. They don’t have to go to the college to ask for money, they have an O&M account. And so, in 25-30 years, they should have enough money in there to replace major mechanical systems without having to go to the college. You just get people who are in the business who understand it. I’ll take Claire that works for me, she was the controller when it was college and for Pyramid. She was the acting general manager for a year. And so, it’s very helpful, because she came from the hotel industry, I came from the hotel industry. We’re looking daily at customer comments and looking at their financials. Because they do a good job. Pyramids is a great partner! And what’s nice about the college is all those employees are not college employees anymore. They’re pyramids employees. So that’s good.

TDR: This is a question about the financials of the Hanover Inn. Over the past year, I believe, the special rate that student organizations get at the Hanover Inn to use a room went up about $30?

It’s any college group. So, we were asked to do to put a 10-year plan together, I think we’re in year 4 so that any internal college folks to eliminate the subside that college groups were getting. What ends up happening is for like a Department the college is paying that in the back end. Because if you know we can get $300 and you’re only paying $150, there’s a subsidy, right? And so, the object was, to help with the college’s budget, over 10 years get to remove that subsidy. Really what it does, it makes departments decide, do I want to send them at the Inn for say $300? Is it really that important? Or can I send them to Six South, or the Marriott, right? So, the goal from senior leadership was to remove that subsidy from the Inn.

TDR: Was that pushed for in the college’s side?

Yes. So, the risk now falls upon Pyramid. Because, if you’re a Department, and now you’re not getting the subsidy, or whoever, you’re paying more. There’s that potential that you may send them to Six South Street, that you may send them to the Marriott. What’s good for the Inn is though we have a large transient group of people that come in. We do a lot of Tuck. You know, we are there, they’re willing to pay. Not so much Tuck, but like transient, you got stuff like DH, you got tons of businesses that send people over here. Our occupancy rate is phenomenal, it is well over 80%. Which helps us, the rest of the local hotels there in the high 60s. And so, in some ways, it would be great to keep the subside, but the college owns the hotel, it’s their money, if they want to get rid of the subside, that’s fine, we will do it.

TDR: Part of the reason why I ask is that there are a lot of organizations on campus that depend on that subside that comes from that student activity fee versus actual college money, so it has been something stressful for some students.

That comes from senior leadership at the college, that’s a good question to ask them. Because I hear this too, right? Why is the subside going down? I get it from departments, and I say its not the Inn. We get no more money, right? If it’s $300, we still get $300. What the problem is right is all the risk now is on Pyramid. I would love to be able to have the subside, maybe have a sweet spot in between. Because other folks get grief too. And we have to explain the look, it’s the college’s decision. It makes it easier for the Inn to have the subside.

TDR: It seems like there’s a lot of small fees that are going up recently. One thing that also causes a lot of grief to students, because we are a student-run paper, is that the cost to become a student recognized driver by the college through transportation services, that fee is now $30. And the rules surrounding that change, it used to be that if you were going in your own car to run an errand in the Upper Valley, you didn’t need that certification. Now every time you’re doing something for the college, you are required to pay that $30 certification. And it seems a bit confusing, because in the situation that you do get into an accident, it’s still your insurance that is the primary insurance on file for that.

Let’s back up a little bit. When we took over parking and transportation, there were two things: employees that drive vehicles and we have students, and we also have rental vehicles and college vehicles. There used to be before I was in transportation, the college that used to run their own rental car business, which financially was unsustainable. So, the college reached a deal with Enterprise to provide the vehicles that employees and students could drive. So, if you are under 21, actually I think it’s under 23, it’s almost impossible for you to get a rental car. One of the agreements with Enterprise was they will allow drivers who are 18 to use, if it’s on college business, a rental car. But, based on that, there had to be a driver training program and a trainer background check. And it’s not inexpensive to do the background checks, and it’s not just students – it’s all employees who drive. And, people come from every state. In some states, fees are $50, some fees are $10. And so, the average is $30 to be able to do the driving background check. If you look at the transportation website, what’s the acceptable level – you know, if you are drunk driving or reckless driving, you can’t drive. So you have that portion that was streamlined and made so that we do anybody who’s going to drive. For students, it’s twice within the career. It also makes it so that departments – because it’s extremely expensive, somebody’s going to pay for this no matter what – and so it also puts the onus back on departments to say “I have ten people” and if they weren’t paying anything for the driving history, they just put all ten. Then there is the cost – because the cost hasn’t changed, the cost is still there – well now maybe you decide that not all ten need to drive, maybe just five do. And that, in essence, has dropped the overall expense for the college. It might have hit departments but the overall expense has dropped. Now for employees, if you are a new employee you are going to get checked. But, what we also do is we run ten percent a year. We randomly choose who gets their driving history checked. We work with risk management office. It helps us with our insurance rates and it helps us with Enterprise because if you don’t do it, Enterprise can say “we don’t want 18-20 year olds to drive” or “your insurance rates will go up.” So one of the other things that has changed was the driver training. We are in a society now – Dartmouth changes hardly. You guys haven’t been here that long, but change is really hard. It used to be a guy who used to come out and train people how to drive a van, how to back up a trailer. Well, the reality is that the guy was like 80-years-old and wanted to retire, so we actually we looked at what other schools are doing. That’s why now you’ll see the online driving program where you go through and “how far back should you be from another vehicle” and “can you be on a cell phone” and “what do you do in ice” and all of that. That – to me – is just progress. It’s technology, because you can’t rely on some guy to just show up. It was so ludicrous, right? So now if you want to take your driver’s training and do it at two in the morning, do it! If you want to take it at six in the morning, that’s fine. But waiting for some guy to show up, and then he’d show up and maybe nobody showed up or maybe half the people did. And so now it’s open and inclusive to everybody.

TDR: And so now, on the inclusivity point, is your office open to creating a waiver for students that can’t pay the thirty dollars.

That’d be worked through the department. For us, there’s still the cost associated with either or, but it’s up to the department to decide if they could pay for that. So, yes, of course, we would. I mean, we’d totally try to get that.

TDR: Yeah, because that’s been kind of the complaints that we’ve heard where if you’re working an on-campus job that pays $10/hour/

The department should pay for that. So, I will tell you that doctoral programs pay for theirs, you know the center for service pays for theirs. It’s how the department decides to pay for it. I mean, it is a true cost. Transportation as a whole, transportation department, we pay all the funding through AT, and all those things all come through the department. That department takes many of the expenses. It isn’t some made-up expense; these are true expenses, so it’s gotta be made up somehow. I used to work in the college division (wasn’t sure what he said before “college division,” the part of this is a few seconds after 36:55); I fully understand that there are students that can’t afford things. That’s where the department needs to step in, and they need to budget for it, they need to plan for it, and know that if you really need drivers – why should the students pay for it. I don’t see why student’s pay for it, I think the department should. But ultimately, that’s a departmental decision. So, you’d have to ask IFA. I’d be interested to know which departments won’t pay for their own students to drive.

TDR: So, the problem isn’t the actual departments like because this is relatively new, people are trying to figure it out. It’s more that there are some departments that are actually funded by the student activity feed. And so, that’s kind of weird…

The student activity feed should pay for that.

TDR: It’s more just, there’s kind of a philosophical debate on whether or not the student activity fee should pay for that, honestly.

The reality is, you can’t drive unless you have this. And you talked about using your own vehicles. As a parent and someone who oversees transportation, I’ll tell you right now: I would never use my own vehicle. Because, think about it, if you use an Enterprise vehicle or you use a college vehicle, and there’s an accident, you want to be covered by college insurance. Because you’re going to get into this whole “your insurance” or “your parents’ insurance” or “the college’s insurance.” I would feel more comfortable if my son or daughter were at Dartmouth, and they had to drive, you really should be using an enterprise vehicle or a college vehicle for college business. I know that I would just feel better about that. Because, you know, if you get T-boned, or you do something, do you want your parents involved in this? Wouldn’t you just rather have the college lawyers, that’s what I would do. I mean, I understand, but I think that if your being asked to drive part of a program, I personally feel the department should pay for that.

TDR: In 2011, the net income for DDS was leaked online through a Dartmouth undergrad…

So when, at that time, that came from Joe Ash, from my LinkedIn account. I can tell you that I have had more grief from that, I don’t do social media anymore, and the reality is that what I had on there was blustered. Because, in reality, any organization at Dartmouth – dining, the Inn – anything we do – dining in particular – we pay for things that so when we make money, we don’t make a profit. Anything we do below the bottom of the line goes back to “let’s run a program.” For example, Kosher is a very expensive program. You also have programs where we pay property tax, but we don’t pay property tax on buildings that might be in other buildings. We pay F01M and N53 (Check again at 41:35), and so what that money is taken for is to pay for those types of things. And also, you have to remember is that not everything we do at dining is profitable. But we are here for every student, and it’s a level playing field. Operating Collis late night or Novack 24 hours a day during finals is not profitable. But what we do this for is to have every student be on a level playing field. I have worked here for 19 years, and when it was a program all a la carte, it was the “have” s and the “have not” s. And if you came to Dartmouth, you pay for what you eat. It seems logical that that would be fair. But if you’re poor, or you just don’t have the financial needs, there were students who could not eat. They would run out of meal plan, they would go to Novack, and they would eat crackers or peanut butter. That’s not what the dining service is about. Dining is about the pyramid, and we are the basic level. It’s about feeding people. Housing, feeding, you can’t learn anything until you do that. So yes, that was an error on my part, it was an embellishment that was … look, Dartmouth – at that point – was not the greatest place for me to work. I was interested in looking for somewhere else, and I would do that (not 100% sure he said this, his voice was low, 43:10). And so, it’s just not true. Because everything we do goes back to the college. We have a human resource department; how do they get funding? How does the legal department get funding? We pay for dietitians in Dick’s house because the number of students who come to Dartmouth with dietary restrictions, it’s like this. It just keeps going up and up. And we’re not just talking about “I get the hives.” I mean, like “I could die.” And so, as dining 20, 30 years ago, you know the hotel industry or even here was much easier. Now it’s much more complicated. We have more people that are better educated about where their food comes from. That’s why you see the map showing where food comes from. And we sell far fewer animal products. And that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s less expensive. I mean, we serve Kosher food; we serve Halal food; we serve gluten-free food. Gluten-free food is very expensive. We don’t charge extra for it, it’s all part of the program. That was an uncomfortable part of my career. And, I truly admit, it’s just not true. Dartmouth dining service is like a co-op. Everyone participates, but the money goes back into the program. Look, Novack café, you think Novack café makes money on a Saturday afternoon? It doesn’t. And so, you know what I mean. This is one of those things where you run these businesses. Like, King Arthur. Why aren’t they open on weekends? Why aren’t they work from 7:30 to 5? Because their fiduciary responsibility is to their owners. Ours is back to the college. And so that’s what the main difference is.

TDR: So has DDS every considering publishing some sort of an audit of their profits?

That would be up to the central college to do that. And it’s, the college itself is complicated. We are a billion-dollar organization. The way things are accounted for in-plant buildings versus auxiliary, it’s all accounted for in different forms of accounting. There’s GAAP accounting, there’s income accounting. That’s a fundamental question for a senior-level administrator.

TDR: Well, I can do that! So, on the recent decision to make Novack fancy. Personally, as a student, I am devastated. Novack is bagels and coffee and cheap food. And now, there’s a huge line and fancy stuff from Starbucks. We’ve been calling it the gentrification of Novack.

So that’s you know, that is a decision by the dining team. As a leader, you let the people do what they want, what they need to do. And so, Novack hadn’t changed much since 2000. And you know, it was getting – in my personal view – it was getting stale. It needed a couple things.

Devon: It needs Botox.

It needed consistency. We were using Pierce Brothers coffee out of Massachusetts.

TDR: This is the final question that we have, and you alluded to it before, who gives you your revenue expectations. How does that process work?

So, it’s interesting. So, like, room and board is set by the board of trustees and the president. We work within that. There’s the ski-way, we have a target, we look at what to ski, what does revenue have to be. So, we took a big risk on the ski-way three years ago. Because, and this is part of where good management comes into play here, so I can pat myself on the back a little bit. Every year just raising prices isn’t going to do it because your wages go up, your benefits go up. What we look at is: there are other ways. Before your time, there used to be an athletic director by the name of Josie Harper, and she always used to say: “it’s about the cheeks in the seats.” We did two things on the ski-way. We have a budget target, and how do we get that if we’re not going to raise prices. We actually lowered prices. We said: “look if you’re Dartmouth affiliated, $99. Employees, faculty, or spouses. $99.” It’s about getting the cheeks in the seats. We went from, we were like some super low number, and now we are up to, like, 250 employee passes a year. And look, it’s for $99, you ski twice, you’re fine. The other thing is, technology – oh, and this year we actually worked out a deal so that it’s not just the ski-way, but you can actually get a pass for cross country. So, the other thing is technology. It used to be that you had to go to the ski way and get your pass, your lift ticket. We actually partnered with Liftopia 2 years ago. You give up margin because Liftopia has to take a percentage. I was skeptical at first, but my son is a big skier. And that’s how it’s all about the phone now. When my son goes skiing, he goes to the phone, and he goes to Liftopia, and he looks for what’s the best deal he can get. So, we partnered with Liftopia. So, two things: we have more employees. When employees are skiing, oftentimes, they will bring a friend (that’s the cheeks in the seats). And then, by using technology and Liftopia, it’s bringing more people in from other areas, and we partnered with other local ski areas too so you can ski for us or you can ski at Whaleback. There’s cross-pollination. If you buy a pass here, you can ski somewhere else. When you combine the three, we’ve been able to keep lift prices static for the past three years and still build revenue. Because when you get more people skiing too, they buy more food and you know that to me it is a good strategy instead of raising prices because you can’t do that. It’s set by things like room rates, and board rates are set by the board of trustees and are set by the president. But the others are set, you know you have a budget target, but then, as a business manager, you have the flexibility to do things. Like for Hinman, for mail delivery, we really looked at the routes. We put trackers in vehicles. I’ll give you an example. We eliminated two positions, maybe it’s three, because when we looked at the work – and you really look at what they did – they do routes. If I say “ok, let’s go to the northern part of campus” and say “you have fifteen minutes before your break,” well you need to finish your route before your break. Before, they would go drive all the way back to campus and take their break and drive all the way back. It’s very inefficient. One of the folks that worked for me worked for FedEx, and so we implemented corporate tools like the trackers and the routes so that you’re going to finish your route, and this is how long you should be at your route, and this is how long you should do things. I think that answers the question you had. You have flexibility within your own organization, but then you also have room, board, and tuition set that we work with. And we have you know within an organization, we have wage increases if we are unionized or not unionized, and benefits. Some of our biggest (not 100% sure what this word was 55:00) are our wages.